There has been some discussion of “ask a Judge”. I have a question for a hunter judge:  the description of a Morgan hunter indicates that the picture presented is supposed to evoke a controlled horse who appears capable of travelling cross-country.  The horse should be forward-looking.

That being said, who started showing Morgan hunters with  a headset tucked so that they can only see about 30 feet in front of their hooves?    It is a pretty picture, if you are into Baroque, but I was attracted to Hunter because they looked like they could Do Something.   I see an influence from the Dressage Arena, but Dressage horses have their heads tucked for a very specific purpose.  It seems like the Hunters are Dressage horses from the neck up and (some, at least) EP horses from the trunk down.

I have a lovely 4 year old who has a nice hunter frame, but she will probably never bring her face perpendicular comfortably.  She is not built to do so.   Do I jam her into a double-bridle just so she looks like the rest of the class, or do I keep her happy and forward-looking with her nose out a bit?

Ok, this is not a new topic.  It’s been discussed here and elsewhere many times.  But perhaps it’s worth bringing up again.  I don’t have much to contribute to this topic as I’ve never felt a victim of it, nor do I know how it feels to stand in the center of the ring having to be quick and decisive with the fate of a class in your hands.  I personally feel that if exhibitors voice praise for the judges they feel are fair and honest to show officials and USEF, we’ll see more of those judges being hired.  As a result, dishonest judges will either need to change or move on.  But is there anything else we could do to make things more “fair”?

I’m curious how most judges evaluate a class?  As has been discussed before there are criteria for each division that are ranked and reordered in importance depending on what class you’re looking at.  How do you factor the relative importance?

This probably wouldn’t be feasible for being able to make quick decisions, particularly in large classes, but I was thinking it would be interesting if a judge was given a form for each exhibitor for each class.  The class criteria would be listed in order of importance and the judge would score each exhibitor for each criteria.  The scores would then be weighted by importance and added up for a final score for each exhibitor in the class and would determine how the class is pinned.  WAY too involved to be practical, but if an exhibitor could look at their form they’d know exactly what they need to work on to be better the next time.

This is not to say people wouldn’t still be unfair, but at least it would require them to think more critically about each person’s performance.  I’m sure if I tried to subjectively try to judge a class and then use a formula like this to get results they would probably not turn out the same, and the formula would probably give a more honest result.  Just brainstorming here…

I may really be showing my ignorance here, but is there a difference between AOTS and AOTR?  I’ve always heard AOTS as Amateur Owned, Trained and Shown.  But the classes @ P-O are all AOTR which is being announced as Amateur Owner to Ride.  Those phrases could mean 2 very different things. Are they actually the same?  And what are the actual rules around them?  Can the horse ever have been in training with a Pro?  Or just not for the current season?  Within the last month?  What are the guidelines?

Can anyone tell me why Classic Pleasure is only open to amateurs? Since Amateur and AOTS classes are available in all other divisions, why don’t they just do the same for Classic? Or eliminate this division. It seems kind of silly that there are 3 “levels” of saddle seat riding and only one for hunter and western.

I was thinking this had been touched on in the recent “Ladies v Amateur” discussion but I just went back and looked and can’t find anything.  In my note below about classes added to Blue Ridge, I noted that the Ladies and Ama divisions were combined into a single class.  They’ve also combined the Ama and Jr Exhibitor Park Harness divisions.  On one hand I can see how this accomplishes limiting the number of classes at a show we’ve discussed in the past.  But on the other hand, I’m a bit confused as to how these classes would be judged.  Which division’s criteria would be used?  What if I’m a lady and an ama, how do I get judged?  Could I ride a stallion in the class (and I supposed by default be judged as an ama?)?  Are these questions usually answered in the prize list?

Is outside rein, outside foot a fairly standard cue for a canter? I know this isn’t always how a horse is trained (for my mare it’s outside rein, inside foot) but it seems to be for many show horses. Is there a reason for this? It almost always makes the horse take off at an angle and it just seems like we’re “tripping” them into the correct lead rather than asking. Does this bug anyone else?

Ok, it would seem the Curmudgeon Commentary -> Difference between Ladies and Amateur Judging has spawned another topic. I would guess that the amateurs who are least likely to have the ideal amateur horse would be those of us who can’t afford to pay top dollar for a finished horse, or would rather “build” our own show horse from the ground up (not saying this as a rule, I know there are excellent ama’s out there who could hold their own against the pros). Many folks who are new to the breed and/or horses are going to fall into this category.

The problem is, in my mind, that’s exactly who amateur classes were intended for. Or, is there a difference when it comes to AOTS classes? Where do the “hobby horse” folks show, who want to come and have a good time with their horses? I guess this is where we cycle back around to the Curmudgeon, the “business” of horse shows seems to have made an environment that is less friendly to these types of exhibitors. Particularly in this economy I would think this is the kind of person we’d want to be catering to a bit more.

This started under a different thread, but interested in everyone’s belief in the difference that should be seen between a ladies class and an amateur class aside from the obvious lack of testosterone in the ladies.  I understand the horse should have manners, but other than that?

So I was looking for something in the USEF 2010 rule book, and came across some rules that I thought were interesting and helped explain some questions I have had while watching at shows…Makes me realize how much more detailed I need to read the rules!  Here is some food for thought…

With all the 1 horse classes lately, I thought this one was cool- 

GR 134 3. Ribbons won in one-horse classes do not count in reckoning the maiden,novice or limit status of either horse and/or rider/driver in any division.

This one explains the class I saw this year where the rider fell off and won the class – (I always thought that meant elimination)

GR842 Falls.
The fall of horse and/or rider does not disqualify the competitor unless due to bad manners of the horse…<left off rest>

This one doesn’t explain the grass I’ve seen tied to the base of a whip in halter classes – isn’t that an “appendage”?

GR803 Use of Whips.
No item may be used inside or outside the ring while showing a horse except one whip per handler. If whips are allowed, they must be no longer than 6’ including the snapper or lash.  No appendages of any kind are permitted

I’m still fuzzy on the Opportunity class thing, because Open To All Breed (OTAB) I’ve heard also called Opportunity, yet :

GR821 Opportunity Classes.
…
8. The list of Opportunity Classes offered must include “Opportunity” in the class name.

I have more, but too many to list.  Thanks for letting me post a few I thought some folks would also find interesting.

Sue

I’m considering attending the judge’s school at Jubilee this year. Since I’m not pursuing my judges card, I’m just wanting to do it for educational purposes, I was thinking I’d just audit. I’ve downloaded the forms from the AMHA website (application/schedule, handbook, etc). The schedule marks which sessions are for applicants at their first or second school and judges maintaining an r or R card but doesn’t mention auditors. I’m sure some of you have your judges cards and therefore have been to the schools. I’d appreciate any comments on what an audit of the class includes.

Thanks
-Erin