Comments on: maybe a solution?? http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/ The Morgan Horse Show Blog Mon, 14 May 2012 13:27:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: mbk http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8949 mbk Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:43:40 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8949 I've been following this thread for awhile now and while I see the possible draw backs to making qualifying tougher...increased costs,distance etc. I think they are outweighed by the benefits. I have shown a number of both Hunters and Western horses over the years and every one of them was qualified. If the qualification was tougher, a local A plus a regional they still would have been qualified. That said only a couple of them were really OKC quality. If as it stands now with the industry focused on weighting OKC results as the only thing that matters (wrong IMO) then having to have to earn the trip doesn't seem unreasonable. My suggestion for those who think requiring a Regional is to hard then I would propose a two tiered system: 1) a local A top 4 + a Regional top 8 2) require 3 top 4 ribbons at local A shows as an alternative. Between the all breed shows and local all Morgan shows I would think one of those two options would be doable for most. At many shows there would be more than one qualifier and a championship and even if they are not two local shows should give you a chance to have 4 classes to get 3 ribbons. Also you "could" make exceptions for Ladies or divisions that are not always offered. As to having to "qualify" for regionals, I'm on the fence...I think limiting horses there could impact numbers and some of the regional shows are not that strong in numbers now. I think the overall boost that the smaller shows would be a huge plus to the breed as a whole and the loss at OKC would be minimal. Mike I’ve been following this thread for awhile now and while I see the possible draw backs to making qualifying tougher…increased costs,distance etc. I think they are outweighed by the benefits.

I have shown a number of both Hunters and Western horses over the years and every one of them was qualified. If the qualification was tougher, a local A plus a regional they still would have been qualified. That said only a couple of them were really OKC quality.

If as it stands now with the industry focused on weighting OKC results as the only thing that matters (wrong IMO) then having to have to earn the trip doesn’t seem unreasonable.

My suggestion for those who think requiring a Regional is to hard then I would propose a two tiered system: 1) a local A top 4 + a Regional top 8
2) require 3 top 4 ribbons at local A shows as an alternative.

Between the all breed shows and local all Morgan shows I would think one of those two options would be doable for most. At many shows there would be more than one qualifier and a championship and even if they are not two local shows should give you a chance to have 4 classes to get 3 ribbons. Also you “could” make exceptions for Ladies or divisions that are not always offered.

As to having to “qualify” for regionals, I’m on the fence…I think limiting horses there could impact numbers and some of the regional shows are not that strong in numbers now.

I think the overall boost that the smaller shows would be a huge plus to the breed as a whole and the loss at OKC would be minimal.

Mike

]]> By: empressive http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8948 empressive Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:48:39 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8948 Making GN a every other year thing would definately make people uncomfortable, but it is only an idea. More qualifications will be costlier in the long run, but if venues are moved like Rae said is it possible to find showgrounds that might cost less than what we are already paying? A better venue, cost wise, would help the exibitors and AMHA. Possibly in conjunction with the higher qualifications or really the enforcement of qualifications it could be a win-win. This is a rather important discussion, has this idea been brought up recently to the AMHA, Stacy? This would be something to jump on now so we can start getting ideas for next year. Making GN a every other year thing would definately make people uncomfortable, but it is only an idea.

More qualifications will be costlier in the long run, but if venues are moved like Rae said is it possible to find showgrounds that might cost less than what we are already paying?

A better venue, cost wise, would help the exibitors and AMHA. Possibly in conjunction with the higher qualifications or really the enforcement of qualifications it could be a win-win.

This is a rather important discussion, has this idea been brought up recently to the AMHA, Stacy?

This would be something to jump on now so we can start getting ideas for next year.

]]> By: Trisha http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8947 Trisha Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:28:59 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8947 I say that because those are the bigger classes and therefore making it more difficult will reduce the numbers in those classes at oklahoma. I'm sure there are park horses out there who've gone an entire season up until Oklahoma without ever having to compete against another horse. I've seen western classes at Oklahoma with 20 horses and the vast majority of them being top quality. Seeing 20 in an english pleasure or park class is pretty uncommon, except for possibly the occasional class at oklahoma. As I stated in the post; when I showed English pleasure this past season, my biggest class had four in it until I got to Oklahoma and that "big" class of four wasn't even at the regional show I went to. My biggest hunt class, not at Oklahoma, was thirteen. The price for a mistake in those big classes is much higher than the small classes. I say that because those are the bigger classes and therefore making it more difficult will reduce the numbers in those classes at oklahoma. I’m sure there are park horses out there who’ve gone an entire season up until Oklahoma without ever having to compete against another horse. I’ve seen western classes at Oklahoma with 20 horses and the vast majority of them being top quality. Seeing 20 in an english pleasure or park class is pretty uncommon, except for possibly the occasional class at oklahoma. As I stated in the post; when I showed English pleasure this past season, my biggest class had four in it until I got to Oklahoma and that “big” class of four wasn’t even at the regional show I went to. My biggest hunt class, not at Oklahoma, was thirteen. The price for a mistake in those big classes is much higher than the small classes.

]]> By: smskelly http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8946 smskelly Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:38:52 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8946 "Making it harder to qualify will really only hurt the hunter, western, and equitation classes at Oklahoma." I'm curious as to why you think that would be the case? “Making it harder to qualify will really only hurt the hunter, western, and equitation classes at Oklahoma.”

I’m curious as to why you think that would be the case?

]]> By: Trisha http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8945 Trisha Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:19:51 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8945 Making it harder to qualify will really only hurt the hunter, western, and equitation classes at Oklahoma. At the majority of shows, if you show your horse park, pleasure, or classic (among others I'm sure), you will probably qualify just for being in the class because there aren't as many horses in them. I showed my horse English and classic last year and the lowest placing I got before Oklahoma was third and my biggest class had four in it. Though I do agree about making smaller shows more successful. When Ohio state fair dropped Morgans, my trainer tried talking to those involved in the Ohio futurity and the Dayton horse show to try and get them to host the futurity (unsuccessful). I like Dayton a lot though; it's a smaller show for Morgans (multi breed), but it's a good one. Making it harder to qualify will really only hurt the hunter, western, and equitation classes at Oklahoma. At the majority of shows, if you show your horse park, pleasure, or classic (among others I’m sure), you will probably qualify just for being in the class because there aren’t as many horses in them. I showed my horse English and classic last year and the lowest placing I got before Oklahoma was third and my biggest class had four in it.

Though I do agree about making smaller shows more successful. When Ohio state fair dropped Morgans, my trainer tried talking to those involved in the Ohio futurity and the Dayton horse show to try and get them to host the futurity (unsuccessful). I like Dayton a lot though; it’s a smaller show for Morgans (multi breed), but it’s a good one.

]]> By: RaeOfLight http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8944 RaeOfLight Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:24:33 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8944 The more I think about this idea, the more I just like it. But I've only ever been to a few shows and only participated in one (so far). The way I'm seeing it the main objections we have right now are cost, and feasibility for some folks who are far away from the closest regional show. Not to say these aren't valid reasons, but if they're the only ones, surely we can find a way around them. One suggestion that has already been made is that of moving regional shows around, particularly in regions where there are folks that need to make a long haul to get there. I know this could introduce some hassle for the organizers of the shows, but it might be worth it. Another solution might be to change the Regional qualification to what the GN currently requires (which isn't all that much), and up the ante for GN qualification. Perhaps a placing at a Regional show could count as multiple "points". So, for example, if GN changes to require 4 placings at A rated shows (just a hypothetical) a Regional placing could count for 2. With the Regional qualifier class you'd already be at 3, so with a championship class thrown in for good measure you'd be all set. Or there's always the idea of using a points system of some sort. I'm not familiar at all with how other breeds do this, so I'm not qualified to propose anything. But it seems like there are plenty of ways to accommodate everyone in the change while still growing support for smaller shows and adding value to Regional titles. The more I think about this idea, the more I just like it. But I’ve only ever been to a few shows and only participated in one (so far). The way I’m seeing it the main objections we have right now are cost, and feasibility for some folks who are far away from the closest regional show. Not to say these aren’t valid reasons, but if they’re the only ones, surely we can find a way around them.

One suggestion that has already been made is that of moving regional shows around, particularly in regions where there are folks that need to make a long haul to get there. I know this could introduce some hassle for the organizers of the shows, but it might be worth it.

Another solution might be to change the Regional qualification to what the GN currently requires (which isn’t all that much), and up the ante for GN qualification. Perhaps a placing at a Regional show could count as multiple “points”. So, for example, if GN changes to require 4 placings at A rated shows (just a hypothetical) a Regional placing could count for 2. With the Regional qualifier class you’d already be at 3, so with a championship class thrown in for good measure you’d be all set.

Or there’s always the idea of using a points system of some sort. I’m not familiar at all with how other breeds do this, so I’m not qualified to propose anything. But it seems like there are plenty of ways to accommodate everyone in the change while still growing support for smaller shows and adding value to Regional titles.

]]> By: Jennifer http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8942 Jennifer Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:36:13 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8942 Hi Stacy, What a great topic! Back in the 80's in Michigan we had shows to go to every weekend. As a Jr. Exh. I only went to Gold Cup twice. Although I was a very good rider, did well in Michigan, and Helen Crabtree really like my riding, I didn't go to Nationals at the end of my Jr. Exh. years(1987). My mom and I worked on our own and weren't real popular with the Michigan trainers. I do like the idea you are suggesting, but part of the problem with Gold Cup is that entries are due on April 30 (stiff late penalty fees) and, without a drive, Michigan has not had an A show. Currently River Ridge (4 hr drive) is the same weekend as a local show so requiring qualification would actually kill a local show. Having a show earlier than the end of April would be really risky with the weather. The State only has one completely enclosed facility and that is just for the show arena and stabling, which is booked solid. Personally, I have never been to Nationals due to finances. I have been to Gold Cup a total of four times now. I'm still debating if I will attend this year with my horse(hunter). Mom will go with her horse as she is a Master's WP rider. She and I discussed taking her horse to Nationals, but have decided there are too many risks for her horse to travel that far (traffic accidents, colic, etc.). Based on the current judging standards my hunter is not nationally competitive and only marginally competitive regionally. I'm okay with that :) Jennifer Vida MJMHA BOD secretary Hi Stacy,
What a great topic! Back in the 80′s in Michigan we had shows to go to every weekend. As a Jr. Exh. I only went to Gold Cup twice. Although I was a very good rider, did well in Michigan, and Helen Crabtree really like my riding, I didn’t go to Nationals at the end of my Jr. Exh. years(1987). My mom and I worked on our own and weren’t real popular with the Michigan trainers.

I do like the idea you are suggesting, but part of the problem with Gold Cup is that entries are due on April 30 (stiff late penalty fees) and, without a drive, Michigan has not had an A show. Currently River Ridge (4 hr drive) is the same weekend as a local show so requiring qualification would actually kill a local show. Having a show earlier than the end of April would be really risky with the weather. The State only has one completely enclosed facility and that is just for the show arena and stabling, which is booked solid.

Personally, I have never been to Nationals due to finances. I have been to Gold Cup a total of four times now. I’m still debating if I will attend this year with my horse(hunter). Mom will go with her horse as she is a Master’s WP rider. She and I discussed taking her horse to Nationals, but have decided there are too many risks for her horse to travel that far (traffic accidents, colic, etc.). Based on the current judging standards my hunter is not nationally competitive and only marginally competitive regionally. I’m okay with that :)

Jennifer Vida
MJMHA BOD secretary

]]> By: smccullo http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8941 smccullo Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:21:40 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8941 Stacy, pacificcoasthorseshowscircuit.org is an organization that promotes the showing of ASBs, Hackneys, Roadsters, Friesans, and equitation through "member shows" in AZ, NV, Ca and CO. The best part is that there are already member shows that have a large complement of morgan classes - Jingle Bells, UPHA Chap 1, Flagstaff, Charity Fair, Fall Futurity, and the list goes on with the small local fun shows. You have champion and reserve high point for the year by accumulating points. The awards banquet is at JingleBells. I may have spoke to soon, though - it looks similar to our Region VII award system. Its frustrating that the many all breed shows are not Reg VII pointed (YEAH Carousel is for the first time!!!!!) Sue Stacy,
pacificcoasthorseshowscircuit.org is an organization that promotes the showing of ASBs, Hackneys, Roadsters, Friesans, and equitation through “member shows” in AZ, NV, Ca and CO. The best part is that there are already member shows that have a large complement of morgan classes – Jingle Bells, UPHA Chap 1, Flagstaff, Charity Fair, Fall Futurity, and the list goes on with the small local fun shows. You have champion and reserve high point for the year by accumulating points. The awards banquet is at JingleBells.

I may have spoke to soon, though – it looks similar to our Region VII award system. Its frustrating that the many all breed shows are not Reg VII pointed (YEAH Carousel is for the first time!!!!!)

Sue

]]> By: Carley http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8940 Carley Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:17:57 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8940 Michigan All Morgan is not only not a regional, but its not even its own show this year. It has been combined with the other Class A morgan show in MI, Morgan showtime. The only other class A show in MI is the michigan morgan horse breeders futurity, which is also under scrutiny for many reasons (one of which is because its been combined with an arab show this year). The michigan morgan shows are in trouble. membership is down and lots of people are pissed off at the ways the BOD is trying to save money. we just lost our largest showing facility (mi state fair grounds) thanks to the governor selling the land. there are very few other places to show. Michigan All Morgan is not only not a regional, but its not even its own show this year. It has been combined with the other Class A morgan show in MI, Morgan showtime. The only other class A show in MI is the michigan morgan horse breeders futurity, which is also under scrutiny for many reasons (one of which is because its been combined with an arab show this year). The michigan morgan shows are in trouble. membership is down and lots of people are pissed off at the ways the BOD is trying to save money. we just lost our largest showing facility (mi state fair grounds) thanks to the governor selling the land. there are very few other places to show.

]]> By: StacyGRS http://abovelevel.com/2010/01/29/maybe-a-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-8939 StacyGRS Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:08:16 +0000 http://abovelevel.com/?p=2562#comment-8939 Yikes..OKC every other year? So, there's a chance that kids would age out in a year that didn't have OKC? And Jr horses would only get 1 Jr year under saddle? I don't think that would work. In my area, most of our shows are combined breeds...the only all Morgan shows we go to, IIRC, are June Classic and Morgan Medallion. The rest are combined with between 1 and 3 other breeds. But, most of the classes are not combined...so, the other breeds have strong divisions and our's are light...not exactly a selling point for us. For the Michigan person, is Michigan All Morgan not still a regional? That would be alot closer than Gold Cup. Sue...I have no thoughts on adding Morgans to the Pacific Coast system...I'm not really sure I know the details of that circuit. What is the bonus? What's the payoff? How does it work? Sell me:):) Stacy Yikes..OKC every other year? So, there’s a chance that kids would age out in a year that didn’t have OKC? And Jr horses would only get 1 Jr year under saddle? I don’t think that would work.
In my area, most of our shows are combined breeds…the only all Morgan shows we go to, IIRC, are June Classic and Morgan Medallion. The rest are combined with between 1 and 3 other breeds. But, most of the classes are not combined…so, the other breeds have strong divisions and our’s are light…not exactly a selling point for us.
For the Michigan person, is Michigan All Morgan not still a regional? That would be alot closer than Gold Cup.
Sue…I have no thoughts on adding Morgans to the Pacific Coast system…I’m not really sure I know the details of that circuit. What is the bonus? What’s the payoff? How does it work? Sell me:):)
Stacy

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