Bloodline Traits

I’m asking this questions because I am genuinely curious about people’s opinions. Hopefully no one gets their panties too bunched up :)

Sometime in the future I would like to dabble and do a little bit of breeding. I know my first step is to find a mare that’s worth breeding to, and not some crap, show ring flunk out. Because that is my ULTIMATE pet peeve.
After reading the recent article in TMC about Serenity Masterpiece it got me thinking about how certain lines are known to carry certain traits. Flaire horses not being able to grow manes and tails etc… and I know this doesn’t apply to every individual who is bred a certain way. But I’m curious to see what people who have been in the business have observed about some of the more popular lines out there…
like Topic bred horses, In Command horses, or any others…
Who are your favorites to work? Why? Who are your least favorites to work, why? What physical and mental traits do those popular sires pass on? What is your “golden cross”?

78 Responses to Bloodline Traits

  1. colwilrin says:

    Susan,

    It is fine to shorten it.

    I had an Irish Entertainment son (again, Topic dam, so he looked just like IE). Anyway, he could be the most mischievious thing, though he was my favorite horse. I recall jogging into the ring, him looking right at the judge, jumping up in the air, and turning 90 degrees to face her. Then snorted, and jogged off like nothing happened. I think he just wanted to announce his presence.

    This horse would also get nippy if he did not get enough attention, or you worked someone else first. I have heard that IE’s can be tough…anyone else have experience with them, an if so, what part of IE’s line does that come from? BTW, this was the most versatile horse…he would try anything, and once he got close and bit one, loved to pen cows!!! I wonder where he got the cow sense from?

  2. nightmusicfarms says:

    Col:

    What a story! I hope the judge appreciated the extra effort. I have always heard the IE’s could be tough, but don’t have any personal experience. IE himself was here for years and the horse had an expression so sour he looked like he was sucking lemons. Not sure if he just didn’t like the ring, if that was his normal expression or what the problem may have been. Beautiful bodied animal.

  3. colwilrin says:

    Susan,

    He did it more than once, that particular time stuck out because he added the extra snort! I think we actually got a 2nd or 3rd because the rest of the class he was solid.

    This gelding could get that look too…we used to call him Beetlejuice. If you’ve ever seen the movie, there is a part where the ghosts pull their faces down into long pointy beaks…That’s about what it looked like when he was upset and the ears disappeared into his poll. That usually only happened when he felt I was ignoring him. We always said thank goodness he wasn’t a stud, because I think the extra testosterone could have changed that to a nasty side.

  4. Chris Nerland says:

    A respone to FlMorgan, about the older lines. Sue and I had UVM Lancer for years (UVM Flash x UVM Empress) 1/2 brother to UVM Promise. Her parents also bought two other Flash sons (Larry and Lusty) from Don Balch in the 60s. We also had 3 Flash daughters as brood mares. I have never seen horses with more “bottom” than Flash get. They would not quit. Unfortunately, that could sometimes mean they would not give in to training either. They were difficult to train, but they were worth it when you got through, as you could pull them from the pasture and beat anyone. I am sure Luman or Steve could tell you lots of stories! I know why the breed has shifted from these old lines, and perhaps it is for the best, but I miss the sturdy typiness of the old families (I also like having a horse live into their 20s and 30s as well). I have very much enjoyed reading all the comments about the contemporaneous bloodlines. I feel rather antiquated, but you will note that there are still some of us out here propagating the old bloodlines for you all to come back to when your horses get too extreme! I would very much like to hear from people about the Trophy bloodlines, as I know little about those horses.

  5. nightmusicfarms says:

    Beetlejuice! I am still laughing and that description fit IE to a fare thee well. How funny that is passed on to his son.

    Chris, count me with you on the older blood and also feeling a bit like an antique in discussing those lines. Also agree on the Flash line in that they can be tougher than dirt but so much bottom and guts to them.

    I actually think the breed has moved a long way from the extremes of ten to fifteen years ago. The linebred or inbred NF craze has gone by the way, for the most part and people have moved closer back to the norm in terms of size, motion, pretty and disposition. NF added so much talent and nearly singledhandedly rejuvenated our interest in the park division, so we certainly owe a debt in those areas. Bred judiciously back no older, typier lines often gives a really nice animal.

  6. nightmusicfarms says:

    And speaking of bloodlines, I was just chatting with a friend in reference to a mare I ran across last night, completely by accident.

    This mare is four and is in foal, which is somewhat unfortunate, although the stallion looks typey and nice. She is black, bred to the absolute teeth in wonderful old blood and in my opinion, just lovely. A remarkable bargain if someone is in the market.

    https://www.horseclicks.com/horses/425g2c/

  7. empressive says:

    Hey I know I am a little late in this but concerning the older bloodlines
    what is everyone’s take on the Senetefield line? (Hope I spelled right)

    Along with that I would like to add the get of UVM Promise. I know Chris you were talking about Flash and it got me to thinking about Promise. There is a mare named Carol Ann that combines the Promise and Senatefield blood through her daughter. The filly is insane. All go and no stop even at the ripe age of 26.

    Like you said Chris and Susan that old stuff gives a real kick to longetivity. The filly out competes even the gaited horses on the trail and she is about 14.1 hands.

  8. nightmusicfarms says:

    Empressive:

    Is that Charleston Carol Anne you are referring to?

  9. Flmorgan says:

    I don’t know if it is bloodline specific as it is the way the horse thinks and reacts. I think the In Command horses are good thinkers and easy to train. Flash horses are very kind but as was mentioned they are bottomless and need alot of riding. Brunk lines work well and tend to be real solid once trained. The older lines have worked well for us.

  10. empressive says:

    No I do no think that is the mare. The Carol Ann I was talking about was by Senetefield. She was bred to the stallion Green Meads Pioneer.

    I was wondering about either bloodline. Through Pioneer’s Promise line and Carol Ann’s Senetefield line.

    Sorry if I am confusing. I am writing this from my phone rather haphazardly. In my last post I could’nt remember the names. sorry again

  11. Flmorgan says:

    Chris,
    I agree on the Flash Horses. Although kind they are tough to train. They truly never quit and they are intelligent to a fault and learn quickly.Once trained they are fun to ride, but can be a bit busy. Their heart and intelligence makes them very versatile. I have had a few Trophy horses and I have liked them.
    They seem to be very honest and solid.

  12. kim viker says:

    Hi empressive,

    Are you referring to Senatefield (Fleetfield X Parka)? (Quite often found in the “Mortana” prefixed horses.)

    Kim Viker

  13. Chris Nerland says:

    Interesting remark about the kindness of Flash get. Not my experience at all. They were not mean, but were “stand-offish”. Which was fine by me; if I wanted a 1000 lb pet I would get a really big dog. I liked their business-like attitude…once you were on the trail or whatever, they were intent on doing the task. I have different blood influence now, primarily Fleetwing, and I love their happy attitude, but I am going to get back a mare w/Ben Don/Flash blood this fall and I am very excited about breeding her to my stallion.

  14. jns767 says:

    Okay, what about Nobility get? Bobby is a Nobility son and he has the cutest but busiest personality. He’s very sensitive, easy to train but has a tendency to throw a tantrum if he’s not ridden just right. His tantrums are easily stopped , but he still has them. He almost seems like a big person, he loves people and just has such a personality. Always in to something. He also had a tendency to buck in his younger days. I wonder if this is common in Nobility get?

  15. empressive says:

    Hey Kim!

    Your right it’s Senatefield (Fleetfield x Parka). My memory was shot last night and my phone is absolutely no help.

    I am probably repeating myself again but I was also wondering about the get of Uvm Promise. In particular the stallion son of his Green Meads Pioneer.

    I would also like thank EVERYONE for each little tidbit I have learned so much.

  16. morgangrl says:

    I own a UVM Promise grandson. He was difficult to train in the beginning, but he now a fantastic horse. He is still difficult to catch, and can be a brat about it, but other than that he is aboslutely wonderful. He is very kind and quiet, and doesn’t spook at anything. the only problems he had problems with were people, and now he is fine with them, although he still is a bit stand-offish. He’s never bucked or reared or bolted, or anything foolish like that. All in all my gelding is a great horse, but I have heard of the UVM Promise line being difficult, like mine was at first.

  17. Flmorgan says:

    Chris,
    The Flash horses we have were kind of stand offish at first but once won over very loyal. My experience was that they didn’t try and hurt you just tried to get away from you.Flighty. All three are very kind. We have had and do have other lines that in my experience are pretty strong willed and sometimes not wrapped too tight.

  18. Flmorgan says:

    Does anyone know much about Corisham? This is a horse that is in the second and third generations of 3 of our horses. I’ve seen photos of him. My gelding {Flash on the Dams side x Corisham on the top side] looks alot like him. I believe he is old New England breeding. One of the best horses I have ever owned has The Yankee / jenny lake/ Fly Hawk top and Linn’s Lindsey/ Dapper Dan California King Bottom. This horse has the most heart and will to please of any of the horses of many breeds I have owned. Champion in any disapline or event we ever asked her to compete it.

  19. nightmusicfarms says:

    Corisham was a fabulous horse and a wonderful producer of good mares. I owned a daughter of his, Cordiva and she was all Morgan, all go and hotter than a pistol her entire life. That blood really irreplaceable and somewhat hard to find these days.

    Love the breeding on your other horse as well, what a great combination.

  20. Flmorgan says:

    Susan,
    Thanks for the info on Corisham. I have had 5 with Corisham within 2 to 3 generations. One of the best Jr Exhibitor horses we have had and still own is a horse you owned named RWF Titletown. Great horse by Furturity’s First Edition. He is showing this year in Walk Trot. He was a Champion Eq horse for 5 years in a row and English Pl. This horse has a great work ethic and is full of fun. This is a great thread. Very interesting.

  21. nightmusicfarms says:

    Oh, I am so glad to hear you own Titletown! He is a doll and I have often wondered what happened to him. His dam, of course, is one of the greatest mares of the breed and his sire is just a fabulous individual. I am really glad to hear he has such a wonderful home and thank you for telling me.

  22. DVFMorgan says:

    On the UVM lines, I grew up riding a stallion, Merri Lee Centurion by (Orcland Leader x UVM Keepsake) Keepsake is a materal half sister to Promise. These horses were very sensitive and extremely smart, but basically pretty easy to deal with.

    The horses by UVM Antietam by Tennyson are extremely easy to work, some of them can even be a bit lazy.

    Have had a couple of Irish Entertainment horses, they were pretty easy to deal with, but were not good enough through the poll to wear a bridle easily.

  23. kim viker says:

    Hi back Empressive,

    To answer your question about Senatefield lines.. We brought Senatefield lineage into our broodmare band 6-7 years ago through the mares, M River Sunday (Mortana Senator X Red Lu Ann) and M River Sparky (Mortana Senator X Allens Tiffany Doll). We wanted to add, among other lines, Parka-Senator Graham, and Fleetfield (Mentor X Norma). Fleetfield was Trophy’s full brother that went West. We were also able to add more Brunk with these lines (mainly Western Working stock lines via LU and/or Padlock ranches using horses). We already have a heavy influence of Flyhawk/Beamington in our horses (our senior stallion, AOM Sundays’ Magic is 25% Flyhawk). The Senatefield horses brought a bit more substance (a bit more depth of body) to our Flyhawks. They have been a good addition to our lines, blending in what was needed phenotypically while not taking our “ever working goal” of breeding good using horses. The Senatefield horses that we have are good footed, and nicely boned horses. I don’t like too much bone (makes ‘em course), and will not tolerate too little bone (makes ‘em frail). I like having the Fleetfield in there also to continue with the doability/endurance of our horses. Although, with the Fleetfield/Flyhawk combinations we may never be able to wear them out! :)) As a bonus, the Mortana Senator line gave us a rare line to Bulrush, as Senator’s dam, Julee Star was by Red Flash. I always admired the Trophy horses for their drive and endless work ethic; and the same thing seems to be coming through with the Fleetfield lines. I would be glad to send you some pictures of some of the kids so you can get an idea of their influence on our breeding program if you would like.
    My e-mail is: kimberlyviker@yahoo.com

    Well, gotta go for now!
    Chore time,
    Kim Viker

  24. Flmorgan says:

    My daughter was Fl Morgan SS champion for 4 years in a row with him. One year they were undefeated. she was under the instruction of Evelyn Stevens and long time Saddlebred Trainer here in Fl. We have owned him since he was 4 and purchased him through Betty Gray. he has been a wonderful and has since been leased and shown by 2 other Jr Exhibitors. I saw Ben at Arboria a few years back. I liked him alot but was told to stay away from him as a sire as there were supposedly problems with his offspring. We were very happy with Britt as we call him. My daughter is now the Trainer at our farm and is leasing Britt to other youths to show and enjoy.

  25. Flmorgan says:

    Sorry post was to be addressed to Susan re: Titletown.

  26. nightmusicfarms says:

    Hi there,

    Ben (First Edition) is a wonderful horse and wonderful sire. He routinely passes on good lucks and a fabulous, people oriented disposition. He is not a horse I would use if I was looking for a park potential, as he does not typically produce extravagant motion. His offspring are usually not up for resale, as they tend to be much loved family show horses and using horses. He is also linebred In Command, so breeders not looking fo a concentration of IC blood would certainly not select him. I know of no issue whatsoever with any of his offspring in any sense of the word.

    I donated TitleTown to Betty to help with the costs for a covered arena which they needed for the handicapped program.

    He is a gorgeous animal at 21, ships like a dream and just as kind as ever.

    Susan

  27. Flmorgan says:

    Susan,
    At the time we were looking for Western pleasure and I thought he was one of the prettiest horses I had seen. I did get a contract for him from the Lady who owns him now and then our mare foundered. We still have the mares daughter and she has no IC. [ UVM windfall x UVM Tenyson out of our Yankee/ Brunk mare] Does the same woman still have Ben? I would have to contact her again. I know she is a Vet. Like I said we are very pleased with the our First Edition Horse.

  28. jgarrett_fhf says:

    I own an Issues N Answers x Mylark mare and she is the best horse I will ever own and I will own her for the rest of her life. I have had her since she was two. She has an amazing temperment, but will still keep you on your toes if you know how to ride. With kids she just goes wherever they point her and never takes advantage of them. She is the best thinking, good minded mare I have ever ridden. She is also very versatile, she does western, hunt, trail, ranch horse competitions, she will move cows, carry a flag, be in parades and last summer was borrowed for the sherriff’s posse.

    I also like the way she is built, she can be upheaded or carry herself lower. She is about 15.2 hands tall and very proportionate, of course that is my opinion, as I like the thicker morgans versus the long stringy ones for western. The only thing I will say is that it took her until she was about 7 to completely fill out, that is the only thing I would have ever changed about her.

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